- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
chief31;238267 wrote:I didn’t say you should put your opinion on hold.
I said I find it difficult to pin him down as anything, seeing as how I have seen him do what he is not supposed be able to do.
As for Those Patriots, you can all them “The greatest of all time”, but how do you not consider the loss of Brady as making it far, far less than that?
How many championships have The Chicago Bulls won without Micheal Jordan?
It’s arguable that it was the best ever. But not when you subtract Tom Brady. Then it is rather questionable. And, rather or not anySchmoe could have done what Cassel did is extremely opinion-driven.
Cassel was not just a career backup, but he had even spent his entire collegiate career as a backup. One could easily say that he was more inexperienced than a rookie.
Alright, let’s look at the three year average of the greats….
Tom Brady – 86.6; 85.7; 85.9
Payton Manning – 71.2; 90.7; 94.7
Drew Brees – 76.9; 67.5; 104.8Matt Cassel – 89.4; 69.9, 93.0
You don’t think this looks appropriate for a three year starter?
I mean, Brady started right out with a Super Bowl team, and his average is right on par with Cassel’s first three, and that includes Cassel playing for this team two years.
You can always point to guys like Rivers and Rodgers, who instantly hit the numbers. But I think it is fair to list those guys as exceptional.
But, three of the best of the best QBs in The NFL right now, had average numbers through their firsth thgree seasons.
In fact, it would probably be fair to say that “average” is pretty good for a guy in his first three seasons, no?
______________________________________
Hey. Keep your opinion if you want.
I just think you are leaving yourself open to being made a fool of, should Cassel continue to improve.
But then, that is the best way to be fooled, is by Chiefs doing better than you thought they could.
Huh? Yes, losing Brady and putting in Cassel severely hindered the record-setting passing offense of the Patriots. How does this help your argument?
If Cassel improves to be a top-10 NFL QB, I’ll look foolish. If he doesn’t, you will. Sound fair?
TopekaRoy;238270 wrote:That link is from SportCity.com The say the source of their numbers isSpotrac currently lists Flowers salary at $555,000,000 which is no longer accurate and is not included at all in the total you quote. Hali’s Salary isn’t even listed there. So not only is your source wrong, your source’s source is also wrong.
Huh? Flowers is making $555,000 this season. He was *extended* with the $55M contract, which kicks in next season.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop pretending you do.
jmlamerson;238268 wrote:Go to the spotrac site referenced in the link. It actually takes you through every contract, although not in as readable of a form: Kansas City Chiefs Player Contracts, Salaries, & Transactions.Alright. that is a different link then the one I just posted and appears to be more up to date. I’ll have to look it over more closely.
jmlamerson;238253 wrote:We have plenty of money. Our owner is pinching pennies. We’re $30M under the cap. If we were paying Cassel $1M a year, we’d be sitting at $40M under the cap. Hell, we cut guys who should have been Chiefs-lifers (like Waters) to save money.If our owner wanted to field a better team with better players on the lines, he could have. Easily. But he didn’t. Hell, we’re paying out less than $70M in salaries (actual money, not cap) this year (Kansas-City-Chiefs Salaries | Kansas-City-Chiefs Player Salaries | 2011 Kansas-City-Chiefs Salary).
Neither Cassel nor any other Chief has anything to do with it.
If you wanna start throwing out links here’s another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/. Guess who’s got the most cap space, we do with almost 33 million in free space. Guess who’s got less cap space? The Minnesota Vikings and we beat them on Sunday. If you can’t figure out that cap space and the ability of a team to win games doesn’t matter by now nothing will.
Having cap space and overpaying a player isn’t comparing apples to apples. Comparing an average QB pay to an elite QB pay is. If you want to grab on to any excuse other than that we’re over paying for a QB that’s average that’s cool. Fact is we’re over paying for an average QB and that’ll make our team less likely to go out and get a better one or try to draft one that could be better.
Not to mention that a few posts ago you posted a thought about Cassel not being a top 10 QB. Which would make me think you want a top 10 QB. You know what makes that more likely to happen? Not paying someone that’s not in the top 10 a top 10 salary.
jmlamerson;238272 wrote:Huh? Yes, losing Brady and putting in Cassel severely hindered the record-setting passing offense of the Patriots. How does this help your argument?If Cassel improves to be a top-10 NFL QB, I’ll look foolish. If he doesn’t, you will. Sound fair?
How’s that?
I never said he was a top ten QB.
Anyway…. The well-seasoned expert Tom Brady was removed from that Pats offense….
So how about Cassel didn’t play on the greatest passing offense of all time?
If Matt Cassel was the QB for the greatest passing offense of all time, then clearly saying he is average would be ridiculous.TopekaRoy;238262 wrote:That link is out of date. Click on it and see how mauch Hali and Flowers are making. You may have trouble finding them because they aren’t even listed! According to Kansas City Chiefs 2011 Team Management | Tradition Sports Online The Chiefs total salary is $107,390,000 and the Cap space is $12,610,000. I posted that info a week ago, but you two obviously didn’t bother to read it because you are still quoting inaccurate figures.You can look it up here: (click on the little blue box with the arrow in it next to my name.)
I’m so so sorry, Can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me? :whipping1:
OPLookn;238275 wrote:If you wanna start throwing out links here’s another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/.That link list’s the Chiefs salary at $93 1/2 million and it was written August 16. Spotrac lists the total salary at $62 million and there’s no date. Why is it so hard to find a current accurate number? I know it’s inexact with incentives and bonuses but that information should be easy enough to obtain.
It’s very frustrating.
chief31;238276 wrote:How’s that?I never said he was a top ten QB.
Anyway…. The well-seasoned expert Tom Brady was removed from that Pats offense….
So how about Cassel didn’t play on the greatest passing offense of all time?
If Matt Cassel was the QB for the greatest passing offense of all time, then clearly saying he is average would be ridiculous.
The 2007 Pats was the greatest passing offense of all time. The only real difference between the 2007 Pats and the 2008 Pats was the QB. We see how Cassel does with WRs, OL, RB, and coach of the greatest passing offense of all time. The answer is “solid.”
If you’re trying to say that Cassel transformed the greatest passing offense of all time into merely a solid passing offense, well, again, I’m not sure that helps your argument either.
TopekaRoy;238279 wrote:That link list’s the Chiefs salary at $93 1/2 million and it was written August 16. Spotrac lists the total salary at $62 million and there’s no date. Why is it so hard to find a current accurate number? I know it’s inexact with incentives and bonuses but that information should be easy enough to obtain.It’s very frustrating.
Yeah, they haven’t updated it with a final number, or the rookie numbers. Which is why I said $70M to be safe.
But it’s a very accurate picture of just how little we’re spending.
OPLookn;238275 wrote:If you wanna start throwing out links here’s another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/. Guess who’s got the most cap space, we do with almost 33 million in free space. Guess who’s got less cap space? The Minnesota Vikings and we beat them on Sunday. If you can’t figure out that cap space and the ability of a team to win games doesn’t matter by now nothing will.Having cap space and overpaying a player isn’t comparing apples to apples. Comparing an average QB pay to an elite QB pay is. If you want to grab on to any excuse other than that we’re over paying for a QB that’s average that’s cool. Fact is we’re over paying for an average QB and that’ll make our team less likely to go out and get a better one or try to draft one that could be better.
Not to mention that a few posts ago you posted a thought about Cassel not being a top 10 QB. Which would make me think you want a top 10 QB. You know what makes that more likely to happen? Not paying someone that’s not in the top 10 a top 10 salary.
FYI, that number is from August 16. It’s about two months out of date and includes dead cap space.
We’re only going to get a top-10 QB if we draft one. And the rookies have a cap now, you know. We can fit any rookie QB, even taken 1st overall, in our massive cap space. I can barely muster the energy to say it again, it doesn’t matter how much Cassel makes. We’re clearly hoarding our pennies.
Teams like the Vikings that waste their cap on bad (re: overpriced and old) free agents are worse than those like us who hoard cap space. But teams that win championships fall in the middle of those two extremes. They certainly don’t leave the RT spot to be manned by the likes of Barry Richardson or the FS spot by Sabby Piscatelli.
jmlamerson;238280 wrote:The 2007 Pats was the greatest passing offense of all time. The only real difference between the 2007 Pats and the 2008 Pats was the QB. We see how Cassel does with WRs, OL, RB, and coach of the greatest passing offense of all time. The answer is “solid.”If you’re trying to say that Cassel transformed the greatest passing offense of all time into merely a solid passing offense, well, again, I’m not sure that helps your argument either.
Nope. Cassel never played on the greatest offense of all time.
Pretty simple English there.
There really is no argument here.
Great how you decided to focus on something so trivial.
Anyway, as I said…..
You are entitled to your opinion.
But, I think you are selling Cassel’s accomplishments short, since several of those who are considered to be the best of the best (Brady, Manning, Brees) had very similar careers through their first three seasons, to what Cassel has had.
That’s pretty much the reason I have not been able to label Cassel, is because, to this point, his career is quite similar to those mens’.
Those guys grew into the fantastic passers that they are today, from a similar position to where Cassel is in his, today.
But if you prefer to just carry on about how Matt Cassel QBd the greatest offense of all time, I’m afraid you are all alone in that room.
jmlamerson;238287 wrote:FYI, that number is from August 16. It’s about two months out of date and includes dead cap space.We’re only going to get a top-10 QB if we draft one. And the rookies have a cap now, you know. We can fit any rookie QB, even taken 1st overall, in our massive cap space. I can barely muster the energy to say it again, it doesn’t matter how much Cassel makes. We’re clearly hoarding our pennies.
Teams like the Vikings that waste their cap on bad (re: overpriced and old) free agents are worse than those like us who hoard cap space. But teams that win championships fall in the middle of those two extremes. They certainly don’t leave the RT spot to be manned by the likes of Barry Richardson or the FS spot by Sabby Piscatelli.
If you can find a better and more accurate one that’s cool, doesn’t really matter. I can barely muster the energy to keep beating my head against a wall when going back and forth with you but I’ll try. Cassel is overpaid or he’s a top 10 QB because that’s how he’s paid. Not to mention you just said above that the Vikings are old and overpriced which is why they were so close to the cap limit. So either Cassel is overpaid or he’s an elite QB there’s really no way out of that because it’s an either or situation. You’ve said he’s an average QB so the other is that he’s over paid.
To upgrade everything you want it’ll take money. I really would be curious what it is and agree that it’s hard to find an accurate web site that’s up to day. Regardless, I’d love to have an QB drafted that isn’t named Stanzi. I do think Stanzi was a good pickup and would challenge a backup for that role. Hope I’m wrong and he’s a starting QB in the future.
Whatever the case may be it’s been an interesting going back and forth with you and I’ll be curious to see Cassel’s development during the rest of his contract and what we do in the role of QB.
:bananen_smilies046:
chief31;238296 wrote:Nope. Cassel never played on the greatest offense of all time.Pretty simple English there.
There really is no argument here.
Great how you decided to focus on something so trivial.
Anyway, as I said…..
You are entitled to your opinion.
But, I think you are selling Cassel’s accomplishments short, since several of those who are considered to be the best of the best (Brady, Manning, Brees) had very similar careers through their first three seasons, to what Cassel has had.
That’s pretty much the reason I have not been able to label Cassel, is because, to this point, his career is quite similar to those mens’.
Those guys grew into the fantastic passers that they are today, from a similar position to where Cassel is in his, today.
But if you prefer to just carry on about how Matt Cassel QBd the greatest offense of all time, I’m afraid you are all alone in that room.
Did I really have to say Cassel was the QB for [what had been the previous year] the best passing offense of all time? Really? You couldn’t pick that up from the context? Or are you just disagreeing to be disagreeable?
You seem to want to avoid committing here to saying Cassel will ever be a top QB. I can’t blame you, because you’d look like an overly optimistic homer who was missing obvious dangerous signs if it doesn’t happen. You seem to want to be able to say a couple years down the road, should Cassel flame out :”No, I never supported Cassel, I just thought we should wait and see.”
But live a little. Grow some guts. Make a prediction one way or the other.
OPLookn;238297 wrote:If you can find a better and more accurate one that’s cool, doesn’t really matter. I can barely muster the energy to keep beating my head against a wall when going back and forth with you but I’ll try. Cassel is overpaid or he’s a top 10 QB because that’s how he’s paid. Not to mention you just said above that the Vikings are old and overpriced which is why they were so close to the cap limit. So either Cassel is overpaid or he’s an elite QB there’s really no way out of that because it’s an either or situation. You’ve said he’s an average QB so the other is that he’s over paid.To upgrade everything you want it’ll take money. I really would be curious what it is and agree that it’s hard to find an accurate web site that’s up to day. Regardless, I’d love to have an QB drafted that isn’t named Stanzi. I do think Stanzi was a good pickup and would challenge a backup for that role. Hope I’m wrong and he’s a starting QB in the future.
Whatever the case may be it’s been an interesting going back and forth with you and I’ll be curious to see Cassel’s development during the rest of his contract and what we do in the role of QB.
Cassel is an average QB who is overpaid. It does not affect this team’s performance at all how much he is overpaid. As I showed you, we have massive amounts of cap room and could absorb another three Cassels without hitting our cap limit.
Are people really not getting this?
jmlamerson;238299 wrote:Cassel is an average QB who is overpaid. It does not affect this team’s performance at all how much he is overpaid. As I showed you, we have massive amounts of cap room and could absorb another three Cassels without hitting our cap limit.Are people really not getting this?
I get it, I just think you didn’t understand what I was saying. I don’t mean that as an insult, shot at you or whatever way. I just think our wires got crossed. To me cap space says absolutely nothing about how good or bad a team is. Look at Philly, they went out and broke the bank for their team, look at where they are at. Why not save 30 mil and have the exact same record.
I was merely trying to understand why the cap space mattered at all. Would you rather us be like the Vikings and spend every last penny and be 0-4? Just trying to figure out what this obsession is with us not hitting the cap space? Who out there has been worth the money that we missed out on that would have made a singular difference in the beat downs that were the first two games or swung the Chargers loss?
- The topic ‘In case your wondering’ is closed to new replies.