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Ryfo18;238152 wrote:A bandwagoner is someone who jumps on board only when the team is doing well. Just because someone thinks something negative about someone or something on the team, does not make them a bandwagoner.
On the other hand, there are also many homers on this board, those that are ignorant to the fact that the team is nowhere as good as you think they are, and that every player is awesome.
Whether you can be negative about your team or not make no difference, in the end we are all Chiefs’ fans.
My vote for post of the week….lol
jmlamerson;238215 wrote:People who see these things in blacks and whites are impossible to take seriously. Cassel has good games and bad ones. He’s a decent QB who is smart and efficient enought to win games with the proper support, but he does not have the athleticism or accuracy to win games only on his arm. He isn’t our savior, but neither is he our devil.What’s wrong with you people that he either gets blind support or blind hatred? There are average players in the NFL, you know. And there’s no shame in being an average player in the NFL.
I think thats the thing….he is not terrible and he is not great. That says “decent”. I got reamed for using that word. Same danged thing. No shame for being average? Average players get cut. Plus, he is your leader. Who wants an average leader? A savior sounds good to me;-D
KCraised;238220 wrote:I think thats the thing….he is not terrible and he is not great. That says “decent”. I got reamed for using that word. Same danged thing. No shame for being average? Average players get cut. Plus, he is your leader. Who wants an average leader? A savior sounds good to me;-DCassel is a good-to-great leader with average physical talent. Average players don’t get cut. No team has good players at every position. Average QBs like Brad Johnson (who I think Cassel is the closest to in terms of talent) and Trent Dilfer won super bowls.
jmlamerson;238221 wrote:Cassel is a good-to-great leader with average physical talent. Average players don’t get cut. No team has good players at every position. Average QBs like Brad Johnson (who I think Cassel is the closest to in terms of talent) and Trent Dilfer won super bowls.With the best defense at the the time
doobs_05;238222 wrote:With the best defense at the the timeWith one of the top-5 defenses of all time. Which is a luxury the Chiefs will almost certainly never have.
Still, if Cassel has Brad Johnson-style career, even minus the SB, he was well worth the 2nd rounder we paid for him.
jmlamerson;238221 wrote:Cassel is a good-to-great leader with average physical talent. Average players don’t get cut. No team has good players at every position. Average QBs like Brad Johnson (who I think Cassel is the closest to in terms of talent) and Trent Dilfer won super bowls.Yeah, Dilfer won with an amazing defense that year, right? But there are also alot of Rodgers/Manning/Brady/Elway/Favre/Brees types that get there alot more often than the 2 enigmas that you referenced. I’ll play the percentages on this one.
Everyone always gets uptight and pissed off when you quote his salary. I quote it because they paid him elite money. He signed the contract saying im worth elite money….well, because i think im elite. When you sign that massive contract, you are in the crosshairs all the time. Its justified. You better produce only big numbers or else. He knows this. Thats the price you pay for getting paid like the best. The microscope is used at much higher magnification.
And average qbs get benched or cut.KCraised;238235 wrote:Yeah, Dilfer won with an amazing defense that year, right? But there are also alot of Rodgers/Manning/Brady/Elway/Favre/Brees types that get there alot more often than the 2 enigmas that you referenced. I’ll play the percentages on this one.
Everyone always gets uptight and pissed off when you quote his salary. I quote it because they paid him elite money. He signed the contract saying im worth elite money….well, because i think im elite. When you sign that massive contract, you are in the crosshairs all the time. Its justified. You better produce only big numbers or else. He knows this. Thats the price you pay for getting paid like the best. The microscope is used at much higher magnification.
And average qbs get benched or cut.Guys like Cassel, Orton, Campbell, Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Grossman, Sanchez, McCoy, Romo, and Smith are current average QBs who have found a starting niche in the NFL. They will not be benched or cut.
And people who complain about the size of Cassel’s contract are the worst kinds of people. I don’t care how much money he makes. No one short of Clark Hunt should care how much money Cassel makes. How much money Cassel makes has absolutely no bearing on how the team does. You should, as a fan, only care how the team does.
jmlamerson;238215 wrote:People who see these things in blacks and whites are impossible to take seriously. Cassel has good games and bad ones. He’s a decent QB who is smart and efficient enought to win games with the proper support, but he does not have the athleticism or accuracy to win games only on his arm. He isn’t our savior, but neither is he our devil.What’s wrong with you people that he either gets blind support or blind hatred? There are average players in the NFL, you know. And there’s no shame in being an average player in the NFL.
How many “average” players get paid 11 mil a year? That’s why I have a problem with Cassel as Chief and I have gone back and forth before. He’s going to be 30, when his contract is up he’ll be 32 and I’d be shocked if he’s a Farve type that stays good into his late 30’s. Paying him that type of money was a monster mistake but I get it and move on from that.
Unfortunately I didn’t get to watch the game but he seemed to do ok against a team that’s not 0-4. Sorry guys, getting engaged seemed like a much better idea.
I really am curious though. Are the same people that defending Cassel being quiet about the O-line too after some have blasted them earlier? No I’m not pointing at anyone but I know there are those out there that defend Cassel but throw the O-line under the bus. Then when Cassel has a good game and leads them to a W they give Cassel all the credit and none to the O-Line.
OPLookn;238239 wrote:How many “average” players get paid 11 mil a year? That’s why I have a problem with Cassel as Chief and I have gone back and forth before. He’s going to be 30, when his contract is up he’ll be 32 and I’d be shocked if he’s a Farve type that stays good into his late 30’s. Paying him that type of money was a monster mistake but I get it and move on from that.Unfortunately I didn’t get to watch the game but he seemed to do ok against a team that’s not 0-4. Sorry guys, getting engaged seemed like a much better idea.
I really am curious though. Are the same people that defending Cassel being quiet about the O-line too after some have blasted them earlier? No I’m not pointing at anyone but I know there are those out there that defend Cassel but throw the O-line under the bus. Then when Cassel has a good game and leads them to a W they give Cassel all the credit and none to the O-Line.
Who gives a **** how much Cassel is paid? You’re not paying it. We’re so far under the cap that it doesn’t affect the roster. Who cares?
Our OL sucks. Our DL sucks. We need better OTs and a real NT for the seventh year in a row. Every game we’ve won since 2009 has been in spite of our overall OL and DL (though I like some individual players), not because of them.
jmlamerson;238237 wrote:Guys like Cassel, Orton, Campbell, Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Grossman, Sanchez, McCoy, Romo, and Smith are current average QBs who have found a starting niche in the NFL. They will not be benched or cut.And people who complain about the size of Cassel’s contract are the worst kinds of people. I don’t care how much money he makes. No one short of Clark Hunt should care how much money Cassel makes. How much money Cassel makes has absolutely no bearing on how the team does. You should, as a fan, only care how the team does.
Ouch, we are the worst kind of people, OPLookn. That’s pretty harsh, i would say. Hopefully behind serial killers and pedophiles;-)
Well, ill put my list of qbs up against yours anydayjmlamerson;238215 wrote:People who see these things in blacks and whites are impossible to take seriously. Cassel has good games and bad ones. He’s a decent QB who is smart and efficient enought to win games with the proper support, but he does not have the athleticism or accuracy to win games only on his arm. He isn’t our savior, but neither is he our devil.What’s wrong with you people that he either gets blind support or blind hatred? There are average players in the NFL, you know. And there’s no shame in being an average player in the NFL.
For me, that stance is just as black and white as any great/horrible stance.
“It is written in stone that this QB has this ability.”
I have watched, over and over again, as QBs who are labelled as one ability, or another, proves everybody wrong.
Orton had no arm at all, couldn’t even get the ball thirty yards downfield with a tow truck.
Rich Gannon was a career backup.
Ryan Leaf was the greatest player ever.
Drew Brees was too short to see downfield.
While so many try to label Cassel as not having the cannon of guys like Vick, or Rodgers, Brees doesn’t have that rocket launcher either. He makes up for it with timing and a great knowledge of the game.
Cassel has shown a lot of that same type of ability, with the restriction of ultra-conservative play-calling, poor pass-protection, and a variety of other things supressing the passing game.
The only significant sample of Cassel working within a solid passing offense was in New England, in ’08. Where he did pretty well for a guy who hadn’t started since highschool.
So, basically, Cassel MIGHT never do this, or that. But he has shown an ability to do just about anything, depending upon the quality of the team (coaching included) around him.
I find it to be an awfully strong opinion to put any label on him, with the situations he has been in.
I find myself taking a defensive stand on the subject of Cassel, not because I am convinced of his greatness, but because I am absolutely not convinced of any label for him.
And those who are planting themselves firmly on a Cassel stance are almost entirely negative. (Present company excluded)
If there were any opinions of how Cassel is an MVP, I would find myself arguing against.
But the only people saying that Cassel is an MVP are the haters, and it is done with shere sarcasm.
I don’t think he is great. I don’t think he is terrible. And I don’t think he is average.
But, to this point, with his situation considered, I think he has been above average.
Interesting statistic….if you take that list of qbs you listed off, they come out with a combined Win/Loss record this year of exactly 20-20. Youre right, thats about as average as you can get…lol
jmlamerson;238240 wrote:Who gives a **** how much Cassel is paid? You’re not paying it. We’re so far under the cap that it doesn’t affect the roster. Who cares?Our OL sucks. Our DL sucks. We need better OTs and a real NT for the seventh year in a row. Every game we’ve won since 2009 has been in spite of our overall OL and DL (though I like some individual players), not because of them.
Well when you list off so many needs what would one need to go out and get that? Oh yeah…money!! We’re under the cap but unless you can get those great players you always seem to be listing off or complaining about for far under 30 mil a year I personally give a **** about what Cassel is paid. Talk about short sighted.
chief31;238244 wrote:For me, that stance is just as black and white as any great/horrible stance.“It is written in stone that this QB has this ability.”
I have watched, over and over again, as QBs who are labelled as one ability, or another, proves everybody wrong.
Orton had no arm at all, couldn’t even get the ball thirty yards downfield with a tow truck.
Rich Gannon was a career backup.
Ryan Leaf was the greatest player ever.
Drew Brees was too short to see downfield.
While so many try to label Cassel as not having the cannon of guys like Vick, or Rodgers, Brees doesn’t have that rocket launcher either. He makes up for it with timing and a great knowledge of the game.
Cassel has shown a lot of that same type of ability, with the restriction of ultra-conservative play-calling, poor pass-protection, and a variety of other things supressing the passing game.
The only significant sample of Cassel working within a solid passing offense was in New England, in ’08. Where he did pretty well for a guy who hadn’t started since highschool.
So, basically, Cassel MIGHT never do this, or that. But he has shown an ability to do just about anything, depending upon the quality of the team (coaching included) around him.
I find it to be an awfully strong opinion to put any label on him, with the situations he has been in.
I find myself taking a defensive stand on the subject of Cassel, not because I am convinced of his greatness, but because I am absolutely not convinced of any label for him.
And those who are planting themselves firmly on a Cassel stance are almost entirely negative. (Present company excluded)
If there were any opinions of how Cassel is an MVP, I would find myself arguing against.
But the only people saying that Cassel is an MVP are the haters, and it is done with shere sarcasm.
I don’t think he is great. I don’t think he is terrible. And I don’t think he is average.
But, to this point, with his situation considered, I think he has been above average.
First, NE wasn’t a “solid passing offense.” It was one of the greatest passing offenses of all time.
Opinions of Cassel’s ability should not be put on hold until he has a good-to-great supporting cast and coach. Very, very few QBs in the NFL will ever have those advantages. Hell, very few players will. If you want to wait until they retire to judge a player, that’s your business. But most people want to discuss the team and its players now.
Orton does have below-average arm strength. Kind of like Weis/Cassel, McDaniels was able to work around that. Look at the statistical difference between Orton’s last year and this one. He’s clearly regressing.
My opinion of Cassel isn’t based upon what he might do in the future. My opinion of Cassel is based around what he’s already done. He’s a career 83.0 QBR, 59% completion rate, 24-21 overall record, 0-1 playoff record, and 6.6 YPA. He might turn into Drew Brees, he might go the way of Ryan Leaf. Or he might stay at Brad Johnson-levels of averageness. The smart money is on the third.
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