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I think the real problem is in interpretation.
Chiefsrule has a lesser opinion of the accomplishments of 2010, and of the player moves this offseason, and is steadily challenged as being a bad fan, as if his outlook is expressing his hope.
Why would anybody make such an assumption? Clearly, what one thinks is likely to happen is not the same as what they want to happen. Right?
Or is it?
I think that those of us who are always on the positive actually do use their hopes in their judgement, leading to their judgement always being as positive as their hopes.
Some of us have no problem openly admitting to this.
But, by doing so, it is instinctive to assume that everybody else does the same.
And when they see someone with an opinion that The Chiefs are not doing so great, they think that that means that individuals does not want The Chiefs to do well.
Being a “homer” is great. I take no issue with those who are loud and proud about it.
Without those who believe, I think professional sports slowly dies off.
But it does not make others lesser fans because they choose to separate their feelings from their opinions.
And as big ole Homer, I would think that we would encourage everybody to be a Chiefs fan.
chief31;232378 wrote:I think the real problem is in interpretation.Chiefsrule has a lesser opinion of the accomplishments of 2010, and of the player moves this offseason, and is steadily challenged as being a bad fan, as if his outlook is expressing his hope.
Why would anybody make such an assumption? Clearly, what one thinks is likely to happen is not the same as what they want to happen. Right?
Or is it?
I think that those of us who are always on the positive actually do use their hopes in their judgement, leading to their judgement always being as positive as their hopes.
Some of us have no problem openly admitting to this.
But, by doing so, it is instinctive to assume that everybody else does the same.
And when they see someone with an opinion that The Chiefs are not doing so great, they think that that means that individuals does not want The Chiefs to do well.
Being a “homer” is great. I take no issue with those who are loud and proud about it.
Without those who believe, I think professional sports slowly dies off.
But it does not make others lesser fans because they choose to separate their feelings from their opinions.
And as big ole Homer, I would think that we would encourage everybody to be a Chiefs fan.
Excellent points ALL around. Canada has made some too. On certain things I think it is good to have healthy, respectful disagreement and on others it is best to agree to disagree or the discussion becomes counter productive; frustrating people who then express those frustrations in ways that are unhealthy for the site thus degrading the experience here. I just think at some point we all need to move on. :smile
chief31;232377 wrote:I haven’t seen that mentioned anywhere. It is implied, when people say we made the playoffs because of an easy schedule, it leads one to believe that is the reason we made the playoffs as opposed to saying we played the same schedule as the rest of our division and won because we are an improved team.Perhaps you are interpretting things incorrectly?Perhaps people aren’t being very clear in what they say as opposed to someones interpretation of it.
Alright. Starting at the top… Yes. We played an easy schedule, and so did all of our division. Yet the rest of our division did very poorly against an easy schedule.
Seems we actually agree here. Just that you don’t want to see that the whole situation makes for an easier road to the playoffs than all other playoff teams (Except the Seahawks, who went with a losing rtecord.
)Next … “noone said this team doesn’t have a negative. We are just waiting….”
So why not allow those who wish to speculate that opportunity?
Why not attack Canada for having formed an opinion, or anybody else? I do believe that you are the only one here who does not weigh each signing, cutting, or trade as they happen.
I have told you, if you want to wait and see… Go ahead. Nobody is trying to stop you. But you have no authority to demand that everybody else be a fan the way you say.Arent you doing that now?
Nope. Nobody has said that. It’s just what most of you decide was said, because you refuse to bother comprehending anything negative that is said about The Chiefs.No one is trying to “comprehend” our team being called the Kansas City Cheaps. There is pointing out and discussing deficiencies, and there is just mindless trashng the Chiefs.
More of the same.You d notice that curved thing with the dot under it at the end of both those sentences right? Its called a QUESTION….I am ASKING if that is what is being said? You said people have a problem with interpretation, so I am trying to clarify yet you still try to tear apart my post.
When you decide that you don’t like what is being said, you just instantly make up things and pretend like that was what was said, because you can make an argument against the things that weren’t said.What did I make up?
How is your judgement different?
You seem to have tried to explain that it is based on the events that have occurred in the past year. But do you really believe that someone else is passing a judgement through some sort of time machine????WTF Through a time machine?? Really?? No….I think some are trying to pass judgement on a team that has not yet stepped out onto a football field.
Chiefsrule is using the exact same evidence to formulate his opinion, as you are. He is using assumptions that we will be worse based on the fact that we didnt get the players he wanted. Where’s the evidence? Mine is based on my opinion of the existing players who actually play for the Chiefs!!
Arguing about how that evidence can possibly lead to such different views is good.That is what has been going on, yet you are here to try and point out what I am doing wrong.
But by calling a newly active member a troll, a Raider fan, or just trying to label him as a lesser fan is not helping anything.…and when did I call him a Raider fan or label him a lesser fan? Please dont make things up. If this site has become so sensitive that calling someone a troll or a wet blanket has become a real problem then perhaps you should just start banning people now.
And trying to declare that your judgement is based on good sound logic, while your opposition’s judgement, based on the exact same evidence, is somehow based in fantasy is ridiculous.
I think I was pretty clear about the fact that I think a player on the Chiefs should be given a chance to perform before they are judged as not good enough.
My logic is based on the players who play for the Kansas City Chiefs. Not based on what Aubrayo Franklin Center for the Saints would have could have done had he come here. I have speculated on what OUR NT will or will not do, not what could have happened. I have not broken any site rules, I have not done anything but discuss my point of view on here (and although you say people should not get attacked for that….here you are) S if it seems like a lot of people are on Chiefsrules case…its because he has a much different opinion than the majority of people on here.
Canada;232392 wrote:I think I was pretty clear about the fact that I think a player on the Chiefs should be given a chance to perform before they are judged as not good enough.My logic is based on the players who play for the Kansas City Chiefs. Not based on what Aubrayo Franklin Center for the Saints would have could have done had he come here. I have speculated on what OUR NT will or will not do, not what could have happened. I have not broken any site rules, I have not done anything but discuss my point of view on here (and although you say people should not get attacked for that….here you are) S if it seems like a lot of people are on Chiefsrules case…its because he has a much different opinion than the majority of people on here.
I am not on his case about his opinion. It is his or her constant consistent response and no actual fact or debate about the subject. It is clear to me that He or She foud a topic that rubbed some people Wrong, and like all Trolls keep pushing that button to continue getting the negative response.
Spending money on Free agents isn’t a wrong opinion. I would love the Chiefs to do so, but I want them to do it on the right people and I never feelt he highest price tag players are the right players. We need role players that fill holes to solidify the team. Not the type of players that break the bank and then quit after getting their contracts.
In the end, I know what the Chiefs plans are and I agree with their philosophy. It does not mean it is right, but so far. I won’t complain about it or even try to persuade people that the Chiefs are doing things wrong, cause I know what wasn’t working for the Chiefs and this is something new I have never seen us do.
That being said, I have used the Ignore feature and maybe some day if Chiefsrule is quoted by someone on here and it looks logical and practical. I may remove him or her from that list.
Canada;232392 wrote:It is implied, when people say we made the playoffs because of an easy schedule, it leads one to believe that is the reason we made the playoffs as opposed to saying we played the same schedule as the rest of our division and won because we are an improved team.But that is not what was said, to draw my response.
It is absolutely not implied that we are a “BAD TEAM” as was the exact statement.
It is assumed by the reader. Improperly, might I add.
The implication is not that The Chiefs were a bad team. Just that they may not be as good as what their record, alone, might suggest.
Canada;232392 wrote:Perhaps people aren’t being very clear in what they say as opposed to someones interpretation of it.I was being polite.
In all actuality, it was, indeed, a matter of somebody over-reaching on an assumption.
Canada;232392 wrote:Aren’t you doing that now?Not quite.
Attempting to silence somebody’s opinion is quite different from expressing an opinion of The Chiefs at Chiefscrowd.com.
And I am not making any attempt to suppress anybody’s opinion.
Just trying to allow another member to see that they are being unfair to an other Chief fan.
Canada;232392 wrote:No one is trying to “comprehend” our team being called the Kansas City Cheaps. There is pointing out and discussing deficiencies, and there is just mindless trashng the Chiefs.And if Chiefrule believes that an unwillingness to spend is a major deficiency, then he may be a little bit extreme in how he expresses it.
But, even that does not make him a lesser fan than anyone else.
It is bound to cause a negative reaction from many of those who care about this team. And it really isn’t a wise way to begin a conversation with a whole slew of Chiefs fans who don’t know you.
And I agree that that helped to raise the tone among those who reply.
But that does not change that stepping it up from there is every bit as bad an idea.
Canada;232392 wrote:You d notice that curved thing with the dot under it at the end of both those sentences right? Its called a QUESTION….I am ASKING if that is what is being said? You said people have a problem with interpretation, so I am trying to clarify yet you still try to tear apart my post.Seeing as how you are a very familiar face to this site, and myself in particular, I am aware that you have no need to ask that question, as I have made that answer abundantly clear to you. Both in the last year, as well as in this particular thread.
However…. Perhaps you have forgotten my many comments about this team in the last year, or so.
If so, then I was clearly jumping the gun on you. And for that, I do apologize.
Canada;232392 wrote:What did I make up?You implied that I said we are “not a good team” and “the same as when Herm was here” through a “question”, and immediately attacked those claims, as if I had made them.
Canada;232392 wrote:WTF Through a time machine?? Really?? No….I think some are trying to pass judgement on a team that has not yet stepped out onto a football field.Same as you. Chiefsrule is using the exact same evidence to formulate his opinion, as you are.
Canada;232392 wrote:He is using assumptions that we will be worse based on the fact that we didnt get the players he wanted. Where’s the evidence? Mine is based on my opinion of the existing players who actually play for the Chiefs!!And he has based his opinion on the same things, with different opinions on those players. Not to mention going from a particularly light schedule, to a very tough schedule.
No different. Just not so favorable.
Canada;232392 wrote:That is what has been going on, yet you are here to try and point out what I am doing wrong.No. No. I am trying to get people, including (but not exclusively) yourself, to ease the harsh attitude, which so frequently leads to outright spite and poor behavior.
Canada;232392 wrote:and when did I call him a Raider fan or label him a lesser fan? Please dont make things up.It was a statement about how the mob treats people. Of which, you are a part of.
And your usage of the :ninerssuck: and words like “childish” is a big part of the antagonization, reactive, or not.
But, more specifically, telling him that you believe he hopes we lose is directly in line with the “lesser fan” barrage.
Canada;232392 wrote:If this site has become so sensitive that calling someone a troll or a wet blanket has become a real problem then perhaps you should just start banning people now.There is no moderating going on here.
Just one fan trying to ease the hostility against a newer poster, to help ease him into the community here.
How many infractions have been handed out here? How many posts have been edited?
Canada;232392 wrote:I think I was pretty clear about the fact that I think a player on the Chiefs should be given a chance to perform before they are judged as not good enough.Yes. You have made it entirely clear that unfavorable judgments should wait.
But judging them as upgrades need not wait.
Canada;232392 wrote:My logic is based on the players who play for the Kansas City Chiefs. Not based on what Aubrayo Franklin Center for the Saints would have could have done had he come here. I have speculated on what OUR NT will or will not do, not what could have happened.So, somehow, it is fair speculation about what might happen, but not what might have happened?
Canada;232392 wrote:I have not broken any site rules, I have not done anything but discuss my point of view on here (and although you say people should not get attacked for that….here you are) S if it seems like a lot of people are on Chiefsrules case…its because he has a much different opinion than the majority of people on here.You have not broken any rules, nor have you been moderated in any way.
Mod, or not, I am still a member of this board, and, even though more former members would likely cite me as their reason for leaving, than all others combined, (Still can’t chase off that darn drunkhillbilly though
)I do enjoy taking part in the discussions.As for our discussion? I simply reminded you that you could use the “IGNORE” feature if you are tired of hearing the negativity.
After we finished that small conversation you interjected yourself into my direct response to Matthewchiefs and went immediately to putting words in my mouth.
_____________________________________________
For all involved….
I know it can be difficult to keep your cool when these discussions get heated up. But Chiefrule is a Chiefs fan. His name is CHIEFSRULE!
As the little jabs get exchanged, the animosity grows.
Yes. You are allowed to say things that exacerbate things.
But why?
Why go to “whiner”, “Troll”, or anything insulting?
Is the goal to get the other member to lose control and leave the site?
They are a Chiefs fan. And this is a Chiefs site.
Why would you not just find a way to stay semi-respectful of fellow Chiefs fans?
Seek;232397 wrote:I am not on his case about his opinion. It is his or her constant consistent response and no actual fact or debate about the subject. It is clear to me that He or She foud a topic that rubbed some people Wrong, and like all Trolls keep pushing that button to continue getting the negative response.Spending money on Free agents isn’t a wrong opinion. I would love the Chiefs to do so, but I want them to do it on the right people and I never feelt he highest price tag players are the right players. We need role players that fill holes to solidify the team. Not the type of players that break the bank and then quit after getting their contracts.
In the end, I know what the Chiefs plans are and I agree with their philosophy. It does not mean it is right, but so far. I won’t complain about it or even try to persuade people that the Chiefs are doing things wrong, cause I know what wasn’t working for the Chiefs and this is something new I have never seen us do.
That being said, I have used the Ignore feature and maybe some day if Chiefsrule is quoted by someone on here and it looks logical and practical. I may remove him or her from that list.
Beyond that first paragraph, I agree.
(The only issue I have is at OT.)
Chiefsrule has been a member since 2009, but only made a few comments then, and has been silent until this thread.
But even in 2009, he seems to have had a big problem with the lack of FA signings.
I disagree. But I do not wish to label him as a troll, nor anything else, within just a few days of him really sharing his thoughts here.
Of course, it is entirely possible that he might be Timsatt. In which case, I have a label for him already.
Timsatt being the only Chiefs fan whom I have ever heard actually cheering at The Chiefs’ struggles.😆
chief31;232399 wrote:After we finished that small conversation you interjected yourself into my direct response to Matthewchiefs and went immediately to putting words in my mouth.
You did the same thing. When I pointed out that were we won the divison was against teams that EVERYONE in the division played you said that I was saying that we had a weak division. That’s not what I said at all. And under that logic Every division in the NFL can be considered weak. Seeing that the teams that win there division win the games the others in that division can’t. So I guess every playoff team gets in due to a weak division. Or does that only apply to the teams who you don’t like how they built there team?
For all involved….chief31;232399 wrote:
I know it can be difficult to keep your cool when these discussions get heated up. But Chiefrule is a Chiefs fan. His name is CHIEFSRULE!As the little jabs get exchanged, the animosity grows.
Yes. You are allowed to say things that exacerbate things.
But why?
Why go to “whiner”, “Troll”, or anything insulting?
Is the goal to get the other member to lose control and leave the site?
They are a Chiefs fan. And this is a Chiefs site.
Why would you not just find a way to stay semi-respectful of fellow Chiefs fans?
Why go to whiner it’s simple. We presented FACTS about teams who spent more money then the Chiefs that have been bad only to have those ignored and continue to have to hear about how cheap this team is. Threads that are made when they sign a guy all you here from him is we got him because he was cheap. Over and over again.
Then the constant excuse making of why this team won. Weak division weak schedule blah blah blah. Ask any nfl coach gm or even any one who fallows the game closely they will tell you there are no give me wins in the NFL. That’s why most NFL games are closer then what they look to be on paper. You have to earn your wins in the NFL. Just because the team has not done what you wanted does not mean that they only won because of a weak schedule. It’s sad when a teams fans is now making excuses to why there team is winning. Why not just enjoy the wins as they come regardless if the team is built the way you want or not. As long as they win isn’t that all that really matters?
I have no problem with people saying I don’t like this signing or that signing or I don’t like this draft pick or that draft pick. I did it myself a year ago with Eric Berry. I stated a number of times I didn’t think that he was the best pick for the team. The problem I have is when you start making excuse why the team is winning when they prove you wrong and stating that excuse OVER AND OVER again. You were WRONG I was WRONG for the berry pick. But unlike others I am willing to admit it with a smile on my face:D I don’t say well they only won because of this or that to still try to prove i was right.
I don’t regard him as a troll at all, but the tone becomes hard to stomach after a while. He made his point- we don’t sign glamorous, big dollar free agents, so that we can contend “now”.
He just doesn’t seem willing to see, accept, or even really read anyone else’s opinions on the matter, but just keeps pushing his own point as though it is immovable fact. Its not- there is no guarantee that signing Franklin, Ty Warren, or anyone else would have made us ‘contenders’ this year.
We are the AFC West champs, and we’re a dam good team. Until proven otherwise, we ARE contenders.
I am drunk most of the time but still cognizant enough to know what’s going on. However, one thing is puzzling to me. If it is such an issue when people use the “Whiner” emoticon or any other emoticon why are they included in the choices to be used? This kind of moderation is simply ridiculous. Get off the pulpit and stop looking for things to police!
Drunker Hillbilly;232398 wrote:Mod’s………Some good, some, well you know.
I think we have very good mods here. The problem, as I see it, is that opinions and personalities clash. I trust the mods and members in good standing to handle those clashes in a mature, respectful manner. Having respect for each others point of view means allowing one another the opportunity to present said point of view without personally demeaning each other.
Agree to disagree on some things and move on.
Chiefster;232413 wrote:I think we have very good mods here. The problem, as I see it, is that opinions and personalities clash. I trust the mods and members in good standing to hanle those clashes in a mature, respectful manner. Having respect for each others point of view means allowing one another the opportunity to present said point of view without personally demeaning each other.Agree to disagree on some things and move on.
Good advice that not all consider, including some mods. Too many of something is not always best. JMO
BTW, my experience shows me that you have considered this advice and adhered to it.
I remember why I stopped posting here for a while. Discussions get heated and everyone gets treated like we are in kindergarten. It has been dished out and taken on both sides, and now anyone who has disagreed with Chiefsrule on here has been reprimanded for taking his opinion the “wrong way”.
FYI
Fact….Kelly Gregg is on this team, by seasons end we will know for a FACT if it was an upgrade.
Opinion….Franklin would have made this team better. Even if Gregg fails, it will still be an unprovable opinion that Franklin would have been an upgrade. We are not discussing the same things.
That being said, i will post that kindergarten crap abd hold hands with everyone on the site so that it is family friendly and on one gets butt hurt about being called a troll or a wet blanket.
Well….
I do believe I was the first person to suggest that “chiefsrule” might be a troll.
In my understanding of the meaning of the word “troll” we are talking about someone who is simply looking for a fight.
I think the repeated posts by “chiefsrule” about how proud he is of the longevity of this thread prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has been trolling.
Doesn’t mean he is not a Chiefs fan, just that he is deliberately trying to stir up a ruckus.
As far as I am concerned the only person in this thread deserving a good swift kick in the butt from mods is “chiefsrule”.
Spirited discussion is one thing…..glorifying in creating fights is simply trolling.
Gonna go put on my Kevlar vest and prepare myself for suspension or worse.
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